Okay, this story is just asinine. I'm sick of frigging atheists accusing schools of violating the nonexistent rule mandating separation of church and state because they "force" children to say the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. Since when is this a violation of anything? I think I need to clarify my position on this issue.
As one person is quoted as saying, those two words in the pledge honor our nation's religious heritage, they don't establish a religion. The pledge is what it is. You can't change it just because someone is offended. This kind of thing wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't always directed at Christians. Even though it just says "under God," which could refer to any monotheistic belief system, every good antitheist knows that those meddling fundamentalists are trying to force traditional Christianity down the throats of our impressionable youth. I mean, give me a break! First the Ten Commandments lawsuit, and now this!
I think the pledge needs to stay the way it is. First of all, nobody is being forced to say "under God." If they don't want to acknowledge God, as ignorant as that is, that's their right. What's more, it's just words. They don't end the pledge with an hour long Bible study session. They say it and then learn how to do long division or something. Now, I can already hear some of the left-wing crowd saying, "Chris, be serious. You conservative fascists are always trying to shut down gay pride events and things like that. Why should you be able to force religion on us?"
I've already explained that, of course. There is no indoctrination or advocacy going on with the Pledge of Allegiance. It's just a few words that people choose to say. In addition, considering all the anti-Christian stuff that's out there, we should be able to keep at least some references to God in our society. Considering the left is all about "tolerance," it amazes me how intolerant they are of any Christian ideals. I can tolerate your stupid events. For example, here at SU, they're celebrating "Coming Out Week," which is devoted to "sexual diversity" and encourages homosexual students to come out of the closet. They're even having a "Big Gay Dance" at the student center on Friday.
Now, that same night, in that same building, I'm going to see Jim Breuer perform some stand-up comedy. Will I go to the gay dance on my way out and start calling them sinners and saying they're going to burn in hell? No, because that would restrict their right to be that way. I personally think homosexuality is wrong and shouldn't be so blatantly encouraged on college campuses, but I'm willing to tolerate it provided I'm not forced to go to any of the events, just as nobody is forced to say "under God."
Of course, if I can give my perspective on gay marriage for a second, this is a different story. That would force people to acknowledge homosexual relationships as legitimate, which would be intolerant of people who believe this practice is wrong. However, there is no law making its way through the states claiming that unless people say, "under God," they will be labeled bigots and theophobes. Why does Christianity get such a bad rap? Why not remove all other religious references in our society? The planets are named after Roman gods! Why weren't atheists offended when people were talking about Mars being close to us last month?
I'll tell you why: because Christianity is seen as their ultimate nemesis, a foe to be vanquished at all costs. Other religions are just seen as part of culture or systems of traditions. No faith has taken as much crap in the last century as Christianity. This is a bit harsh, but I really think that's the way it's going.
A lot of other people are saying this, and I will too: atheism is a religion, albeit a godless one. By removing all references to God, you would be establishing a religion, which is unconstitutional. Okay, that's enough of that. I have to go to band practice. Speaking of band, the SU drumline is going to have a new website pretty soon. I'll probably link to it when it's ready. Until next time, don't let the left hijack religion.
Posted by CD on September 29, 2003 05:24 PM I would just like to comment on how sad it is that someone with such strong feelings about taking 'under god' out of the pledge of allegiance is absolutley ignorant to its origins. (I would also like to note that I am not Athiest and I do beleive in God). The Pledge was written in 1892 by a man named Francis Bellamy. Bellamy was a socialist and his original pledge didn't contain the phrase 'under god' that wasnt added until 1954. The 'under god' phrase was only added because of the fact that our country was trying to counteract communism which was considered to be "godless". So your right, to change the words in the pledge violates the first amend. In 1954, congress and Eisenhower didnt have the right to establish christianity to our pledge. Since many are as uneducated about their rights as are uneducated about the pledge, the change past with few objections.Then again, that was a time period in America when everybody was trying to deny alot of things and trying to potray a false image of perfection. To educate yourself on that subject read: "The Body Ritul among the Nacirema" by Horace Miner. Being that Francis Bellamy was a socialist, he would be rolling over in his grave to learn that 'under god' was addded to the pledge. In his last years of his life,Bellamy stopped attending church altogether disgusted by many things our religions have evolved into. While he was alive the pledge had already been changed twice. One of the changes made in 1923-1924 changed the phrase 'my flag' to 'to the flag of the United states of America'. Bellamy was angered by that change because it destroyed the beauty of how universal the pledge used to be, being a socialist that ruined the entire purpose of his original version. The pledge was meant to stand for ones allegiance to their flag and their nation not to anyones religious beliefs.To Educate yourself more on the pledge and it's origins simply type pledge of allegiance history in your search engine and you'll find many sources to credit my statements as legitimate. While your at it, you can do the same thing by going to your local library. Secondly, Atheism is not a religion. Athiests do not believe in anything at all, they dont worship anything and their beliefs do not have any sort of religous bindings. Thats a basic definition that exsists even in the children's dictionary. If you would prefer, you may also look it up in the adult dictionary as well.
As for taking 'god' out of schools I think they should. If you want your child to have religion in their schools then send them to a private religious school and stop your complaining. There are many religions in our country which is a melting pot anyway. The fact that kids recite the 'under god' version of the pledge in a public school (which is funded by the state) is unconstitutional. Its very true that the children do not have to recite the pledge, but those who do not are often required to stand. I should know, if I didn't stand to respect those who were reciting the pledge it was made into a big issue. To stand in Allegiance to any man made object goes agaisnt the Ten Commandments. If i have to tell you which one and explain how it supports that, then you are one truly lost and poorly represented christian. Whats even more pathetic is the fact that it took a child to write this comment whose only purpose is to try to educate those who think wisdom comes with age. Don't limit yourself to only one side, learn and explore your sources in order to see the whole picture. Furthermore do not base all of your beleifs merely on what has been told to you by friends and family. Question everything and make up your own mind and your own beleifs based on your will to learn and understand life.
A few points have to be made here:
1) I wrote this post back in September, so I'm not sure why you're commenting on it now.
2) As I said, the God in the Pledge isn't necessarily Christian, and nobody is being forced to say that part.
3) If it's true that pledging allegiance to the flag is a violation of the Ten Commandments, it seems like adding "under God" would alleviate that problem. After all, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" seems to be what you're referring to, and this establishes that God is more important that country in some situations. Unless you're talking about "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image," in which case, I don't see how the flag is a graven image. Nobody prays to it, after all.
4) My objection to this is based largely on the logic that it somehow establishes a religion, which it doesn't. In addition, it demonstrates the fear in society of any religious references that could be considered Christian, despite the fact that religion appears all over the place, including in actual government buildings, and doesn't seem to offend anyone (consider once more my point that the planets of the Solar System are named after Roman gods, but nobody's complaining that it's unconstitutional because NASA, a government agency, refers to them by these names).
The people who are against it simply claim that others may be offended, but nobody ever seems to claim that they have been offended. Also, extremists like Michael Newdow treat religious references as some sort of dangerous influence, and this irritates me as well. If nothing else, leftists should be supporting the phrase, since it acknowledges diversity of religious viewpoints, as well as celebrating American culture.
5) I don't, by any stretch of the imagination, "base my beliefs merely on what has been told to me by friends and family." If you'd read my "105 Things About CD" post, you'd know I spent over a year questioning my belief system before arriving at the ones I currently hold. I did this all by myself, incidentally.
6) Atheism, in a way, is a religion. It entails a set of beliefs about the physical and metaphysical world, and from what I've seen, atheists can be quite dogmatic.
7) I'm 19 years old (and I was 18 when I wrote this), so I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think wisdom comes with age. I don't know how old you are, but I'm guessing I'm not much older.
8) Getting back to your argument that children are pressured to say these words, I already explained that in my post. They can choose to say the whole pledge, or say it with "under God" omitted, or not say it at all. Again, your problem is the supposed violation of the Ten Commandments, leaving this option available establishes that the U.S. and the flag are under God, not above Him.
9) Phrases like "absolutely ignorant" and "pathetic" don't strengthen your argument when you're actually trying to change someone's mind.
Hope I cleared that up for you.
Posted by: CD at January 29, 2004 10:22 PMI pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the republic, for which it stands
one nation, UNDER GOD, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all!
And that is how it is...
Posted by: Kathryn at February 24, 2004 06:48 PMI am only 14 and I have enough common sense to realize how stupid this is! I mean not everyone in this country believes in a god. The same with the American money "In God we trust." Well I don't trust in God! Not everyone does...so why is the whole country forced to use things that say this? I stand in school but do not say the pledge because I don't believe that our country stands under God. And even if the pledge isn't Catholic it is still stating that we stand under some kind of God. I don't believe in any god. I am athiest and I don't understand why I should be forced to be around these things... Lots of people don't believe in a God. It doesn't make any sense that the government puts these things into everyday life. If they want this to stand for their whole country it should reflect the views of the whole country. And the whole country does not believe in God..or any God. I think not only that this should be taken out of schools but it should be taken into consideration...That is considering changing the whole pledge. Not everyone agrees with this. It is stereo-typical of the United States people and I strongly disagree with it.
Posted by: Elizabeth at March 25, 2004 08:08 PMCalm down, people. Read my arguments: If we have to remove the word "God" from public life, we can't have any religion in public at all, so among other things, we have to rename the planets (Mars, Venus, Jupiter...those are gods). I'm not sure if I still have the same views as I did when I wrote this, but seriously. It was 6 months ago.
Comments are now closed. Get a life.
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