April 12, 2004

NYT Letters

I'm not done with the New York Times yet. I want to look at a couple letters they published today. They're about abortion, so you know they're going to be entertaining.

Letter Number One:

To the Editor:

To say, as you do, that the administration's defense of its "partial birth" abortion ban and the new "unborn victims" law have a common theme — profound disrespect for women (editorial, April 5) — is to understate the seriousness of the issue.

I love the scare quotes. Really. I "love" them. They're "brilliant" and "original." Not to mention "necessary."

The Bush administration is determined to overturn Roe v. Wade, in whatever ways it can, and foist its religious beliefs on the country at large.

I'm about ready to explode after reading that statement. You don't have to be religious in order to realize that MURDERING CHILDREN IS EVIL. Selfish freaks.

It is using Congress and the law to do it.

*GASP!* How American of them!

It has many very capable allies, like the American Center for Law and Justice.

Because we all know how horrible law and justice are.

Those of us who cherish our freedoms and appreciate the value of separation of church and state would do well not to underestimate this administration or its followers.

How can they publish this crap? How deluded must you be to think that abortion is a religious issue? I can understand people making that mistake with things like same-sex marriage, but abortion? Do they not realize what they're arguing for?

Disgusting. Let's move on to Letter Number Two:

To the Editor:

I hope that your April 5 editorial "Reproductive Rights Assaulted" puts the Bush administration on notice that its cynical tactics of shock and fearmongering to pillory women and intimidate doctors will not be tolerated.

I wonder what they're referring to. Is it a bad thing that people should be afraid of murdering innocent children? That's news to me.

The new "unborn victims" law in fact victimizes women and cripples the medical community responsible for ensuring their health.

How is it victimizing women by making it a more serious crime to deny them the chance to do what only women are capable of doing (as argued in another letter on the linked page)?

The agenda to control women's bodies has a long and sorry history...

Yeah. It's all their fault. After all, they're just randomly sticking babies into the wombs of poor, defenseless women. Personal responsibility can go f**k itself, right?

...and, sadly, still makes de facto slaves of women in many parts of the world.

Interesting. I always thought abortion was more analogous to slavery. The pro-death people are the ones who are always trying to dehumanize babies.

But surely in this country we will not stand to have women's rights to make decisions about their health and well-being eroded by right-wing politicians who appear to hold them in contempt.

What a horrific distortion of the issue. What about all the little girls who will never even get to breathe their own air because they were aborted? What about all the women who were forced to have abortions after they changed their minds, sometimes resulting in permanent damage to their reproductive systems? What about the message that people need to make a choice about pregnancy before they have sex?

But no, it's all because the right hates women.

You people make me want to vomit.

Posted by CD on April 12, 2004 01:02 AM
Semi-Intelligent Comments

Maybe they do realize what they're arguing for, and just happen to disagree with your opinion. Making fun of them because they don't believe as you do doesn't make them any more wrong or you any more right.

I think partial-birth abortions are wrong. But I also think early-term abortion and under other certain circumstances it should be the woman's call.

Posted by: Ted at April 12, 2004 08:56 AM

Who's making fun? I'm just amazed that some people try to act like being pro-life is the same as being anti-women. The whole reason I have a blog is so I can criticize people I disagree with while making a point for my side.

I don't get it.

Posted by: CD at April 12, 2004 11:20 AM

Come on, CD. Don't you know that conservatives are anti-woman, anti-minority, anti-poor, anti-freedom, anti-job, anti-progress, anti-earth and anti-peace? Not to mention anti-Castro and anti-Mumia? Get with it.

Posted by: BD at April 12, 2004 06:10 PM

Hey Ted, so I should respect your belief that it is ok to kill babies...do you also respect Hitler? After all, he similarly decided that some lives were unworthy of life and he decided it was his call to kill all Jewish people..

just like it should be every woman's call to kill preborn babies...

nice, next on the list..newborn babies..first we dehumanize them, then we define them as non-persons, then we kill some of them...followed by the mentally disabled, the senile, and the mentally retarded...

Posted by: Sarah at April 12, 2004 06:27 PM

Geez, I've gotta start paying closer attention to the VRWC newsletter.

Posted by: CD at April 12, 2004 06:27 PM

No Sarah, I don't expect that from you at all. You obviously have no tolerance for anyone who doesn't share your point of view about anything. So why bother wasting time discussing it with you, when anything I have to say will just go unheard as you launch an attack that compares me to the Nazis.

Wow, what a concept. Someone acting like a Nazi accusing me of being a Nazi.

Right wing moonbats = left wing moonbats.

Posted by: Ted at April 13, 2004 08:30 AM

Can we not have a flamewar here, please? I'm too busy to deal with this crap right now.

Posted by: CD at April 13, 2004 11:33 AM

CD, when you post clearly inflamatory remarks you should expect a flame-war.

I came here from Ted's place. I have lots of things I would like to say on this subject but since nobody would listen anyway, so as to waste as little time as possible, I'll just say I mostly agree with Ted.

One more thing I do have to say... There's no such thing as "partial birth abortion." It's a made up term and has nothing to do with killing living and viable unborn children. Do some research!

Posted by: Lynn S at April 14, 2004 08:30 AM

Sorry, I could have worded that last a little better. There is no such thing as "partial birth abortion." It's a made-up term for a NON-elective medical proceedure that has nothing to do with killing living and viable unborn children. Do some research!

Posted by: Lynn S at April 14, 2004 08:32 AM

What do you call this?

I've done my research. I don't rant without qualification. I've got more resources if you want 'em, too. Like descriptions of children being purposely drowned because the doctor didn't know what to do with them.

Do some research of your own. I'm still too busy to deal with this.

Posted by: CD at April 14, 2004 09:45 AM

We could throw links at each other all day and we would both claim that the other's sources are dishonest so there's really not much point in this.



Posted by: Lynn S at April 14, 2004 04:25 PM

Actually, I think one of those sources you just linked proves my points (D&X is indeed a real procedure), and I don't know why you included the other one, but I really don't want to take the time to do this right now.

Posted by: CD at April 14, 2004 04:38 PM

I'd look at this, too, if I were you.

Posted by: CD at April 14, 2004 05:16 PM

Interesting Tim, you had no argument to make except for the usual ad hominem and personal attack. I substantiated my points, you did not.

'Wow, what a concept. Someone acting like a Nazi accusing me of being a Nazi.'

lol...It looks like I have to believe in baby killing to be a good little girl. I'd like for you to seriously substantiate this claim, Tim..

1. How am I behaving like a Nazi?
2. Substantiate that with a REAL example of what the Nazis did.
3. Explain why this is exclusively a Nazi strategy (or at least totalitarian).

I did all those things with you. (I read my post over again just to be sure. It's not my style though to say things like that without substantiating it). Can you do it for me? Oh, and before you bring it up, do not say it is because I supposedly want to 'control women', you will then have to prove to me that embryos and fetuses are not children (i.e. immature human beings who have not reached the stage of adulthood). Or failing that, you will have to rationally explain to me why laws regarding a parent's obligation to take care of their children are mysteriously descriminatory against the unborn child.

'Right wing moonbats = left wing moonbats.'

This gets funnier by the minute.

Lynn, 'partial birth' is descriptive of the 'procedure' itself. You deliver a baby, then you stab it in the back of the head before it is fully born, and you suck out it's brains. Unborn children are alive..all of them whether they are able to survive outside of the womb or not. Sheesh, that is *BASIC* biology.

'NON-elective medical proceedure'

In fact, many of these babies can be delivered alive and taken to neonatal intensive care (D and X can be and has been done post-viability)..the earliest preemie I know of to survive was born in the sixth month. Lynn, have a heart..give a baby a chance!

Viability is such an arbitrary point. None of us are able to survive in some environments (like the Antarctic), it doesn't mean we are less valuable as human beings. Heck, even infants are dependent on other human beings...you try leaving a baby in a dumpster expecting it to survive on it's own..would you go to jail for it?

CD, keep it up...I'll consider linking you to my blog as soon as I snoop around the rest of your site here.

Oh and CD, one hint..link to government, medical (reputable), or University websites..they cannot spit on the source if you do so. I do it a lot when I am seriously trying to 'debate' abortion supporters. We have science and truth on our side. When confronted with the facts they will have to choose between:

1. Remaining in Denial (much the same way that most pro-abortionists operate anyways)
2. Grand Conspiracy Theories
3. Ad Hominem
4. To Concur that they really do believe that some human beings should be allowed to be killed...Peter Singer does, so it's not like they would be alone in that view.
5. Change Their Mind

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